Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. Where is that defect now? You arent a gunfighter, either. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . About $300. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. It did not originally have this. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? And thats just my opinion. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. Search Texas Statutes. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. 01:10. Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? in Capitalvania. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. I have no idea. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? Wounded by his own Holstered Sig Sauer P320, Veteran Tampa Police Sig P320 discharge while holstered | Sniper's Hide Forum Why are Milwaukee police Sig Sauer guns accidentally going off? The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. So your fanboy perjorative falls not only flat but false. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? But were way past the days of major league, internationally known gunmakers turning out complete crap, selling it and the public living with it. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. Companies stay silent The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. The problem is non-existent. . Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. Sig can burn for all I care. As they should. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Wont last!. . If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. Theyre the only product that is not. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. Give me a break. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Would you? Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. You couldnt ask questions. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. Theres a couple of possibilities. On Thursday, M.D. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. three changes to the original design. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. They admitted their problem and fixed it. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320.