There are corollaries in other states. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. The brother and sister big cats have lived . Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. By Eric Orff. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. What kind of animal is that. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. He said matter of fact I do. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. About Lions. I'm Peter Biello. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Give today. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. 44-N Links. And it's not really strong. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Well within there. Caller: Absolutely. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Caller: Oh hi. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Caller: It had just left that field and was out. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. I don't know if she still is. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. Rick van de Poll: Yes. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. Have you seen one. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. But you've done some reporting on this. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. 1957. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. I have one that's more elaborate than that. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. Infinite Scroll Enabled. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. You don't know what's going on. We'd love to have you in the queue. I just want to tell you a story that I read. Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. 1957. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. John is calling from Bennington. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. So so. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. It's listed as population of least concern. Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. for some excitement. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. Women control our lives. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. I'll send it to you. Peter Biello: Ok. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. No that's a little bit outside the range. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. I think that you probably are. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. That's pretty elaborate. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Oh you saw him online. They absolutely do. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Select image for larger view. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Thanks for a great thanks. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. Let us know your story and share your photos. Is that typically what was happening there. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. We'll be right back. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. No I saw a camel. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. They kill big animals. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. Thanks for calling. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. Caller: Hi. So Michael follows with the question. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Tell us your story. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. Good morning guys. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. Can you look into this picture. Like why would you want one wildlife. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? Mike thanks for your call. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Tim Yeah. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". Mountain Lions in NH. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. Absolutely. Part II. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. Well let's talk a little bit about that. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Patrick Tate: Yes. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. OK. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. Yeah I did. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. Get your tickets today and one for fifty dollars or six for 150 at NH PR and board. And so. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. You know interactions are pretty unusual. Thank you. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. And those are not the same things. Caller: Yeah. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Right. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. Let's look for other evidence. It was not a bobcat. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. So there's even debate about that very subject. And you know all that. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. The Eastern mountain lion is extinct in the eastern United States and Canada, but in 2011, a . They are the same thing. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. These were normal everyday folks. And they were using all the habitat. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. Sandy Hodskins, owner of West Meadow Farm in Bradford, New Hampshire, took time from shoveling Wednesday to enjoy the snow with her horse, West Wind. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. I tracked cats and all the western states. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. David Erler says some of them probably have. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. First off if the standard for an agency to go forward with the public and put out a press release that them outlines here their believers are going to say I told you they'd been here the whole time. Sam Evans Brown. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Chartered 1973; Member of District 44-H; . Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. So they're scary. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. The 17-year-old Kiger mustang mare was born in Bend, Oregon, said Hodskins, who got her . Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Your support makes this news available to everyone. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. 19 So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east.